Dres

If you know me, then you’ve probably heard this before. When I was a kid, my exposure to many hip-hop classics was restricted to a select few channels. Bill and Dianne did not allow their children to listen to explicit albums and there was never really any wiggle room here. So, I had to be creative and work around this. I was able to gain exposure to the Golden Age greats in a few different ways. There was my younger cousin (shout out to J.R.) who had to abide by no rules when it came to albums stamped with the “Parental Advisory” sticker. We spent a lot of time in his room listening to Nas, Junior M.A.F.I.A., Jay-Z, Wu Tang, and all of the rappers putting out work I didn’t have access to. Another platform I relied heavily on was television. The content was edited (for the most part), so I could stay connected to what was happening in hip-hop without my parents constantly looking over my shoulder.  

One show that really showcased the culture in a major way was In Living Color. The Waynes clearly were a family that loved and appreciated hip-hop. In season two, In Living Color started hosting a roster of A-list artists, ending shows with a live performance. At the time, I didn’t realize how groundbreaking this was. Hip-hop wasn’t as mainstream back then as it is now. In Living Color was broadcast on a major network, so millions of people were being exposed to MC Lyte, Public Enemy, Queen Latifah and so many more hip-hop artists that they might not have heard of prior to seeing them on the show.  In Living Color provided a similar service to me, serving as a gateway to a world I had limited access to. 

One performance that has always stayed with me was Black Sheep’s The Choice Is Yours. For a kid, the chorus is catchy (“You can get with this, or you can get with that”), so I memorized that pretty quickly after I heard the song for the first time. What really stood out to me about the performance was the way Dres and Lawnge worked the stage. The had this energy that glue me to the television. The best part of the performance is when the song reaches the lines that would later become some of the most famous words rhymed in a song:  

“Engine, engine, number nine 
On the New York transit line 
If my train goes off the track 
Pick it up! Pick it up! Pick it up!" 

When the bridge starts, Dres and Lawnge lower themselves to ground and start bouncing in this crouch-like position. The In Living Color cast and crew join them and by the time the bridge is over, everyone is on their feet, jumping in the air. That shit was magical to an 8-year-old hip-hop fan. A lot of the performances on In Living Color made me feel that way. 

Fast forward a few decades later and this now 37-year-old is interviewing Dres. Our conversation took place during a stressful time last year. It was the week of October 25. On the morning of the 26th, Walter Wallace Jr., a Black man dealing with mental illness, was murdered by the Philadelphia Police. It was a scene all too familiar, but that didn’t make it any less traumatizing. Soon after the news broke, people hit the streets and their demands of justice were quickly met with brutality. On the heels of this tragedy was the presidential election. We all knew the stakes were high and our hope that the next four years would not be a continuation of Trump’s presidency was fading fast. We put too much faith in the opposing candidate the first time around and, well, you know the rest. By the end of the week, my spirit was tapped out. It was all too much, and shit just felt like it was getting heavier by the hour. The only thing keeping me focused was knowing that my conversation with Dres would happen soon.  I wasn’t necessarily looking for it to serve as some sort of therapeutic outlet, but it ended up being just that. We covered so much ground during the interview, in addition to his history in the game. I found myself captivated by each little nugget of wisdom Dres spit in the same way that I was all those years ago when I watched him perform on In Living Color.  

BVB: So, this conversation is full circle for me because Black Sheep was one of the first hip-hop groups I saw perform on television. It was March of 1992, I believe. And I was watching In Living Color with my parents. I was only eight years old at the time, but I can vividly remember being in awe, watching you and Lawnge rhyme The Choice Is Yours with the In Living Color cast and crew members dancing behind you. 

Dres: Okay, that's what's up. 

BVB: How much weight did performances like this carry in terms of exposure? Do you think you would've been able to reach the audience you did without them? 

Dres: No, no, not at all. Back then, to be able to perform on television, was really a bridge for the music. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was the opportunity to appear in middle America's home (or if you lived on the East Coast, you know, someone's house in the West Coast) in a way that social media definitely provides today. But back then, that was literally the link to introducing the music and what it was capable of to the masses, you know. Prior to television performances, it was literally thought (it's kind of laughable at this point) that hip-hop was like a fad, you know, and it was really a serious notion that this is just something that is going to come and go. So, those television performances were very, very instrumental to being literally the bridge that, you know, other artists could come behind and further build this wall that has become this castle at this point. 

BVB: Do you think televised performances like this are still important with social media in play? 

Dres: I do, but at the same time there is social media, so there's an option to it being introduced to people [that way] or it being further acknowledged and enjoyed, but, you know, at the same time, you'll see a television performance go viral, you know what I'm saying? So, to that degree, it's definitely an important facet. And, you know, there's a degree of what it was. There's people that aren't checking a Saturday Night Live performance, you know what I'm saying, like introduce A Megan Thee Stallion to someone who totally was not checking for it at all. And that might be the thing that introduces someone to what the music is today. And not to say that they like it or don't like it one way or the other, or not to say that it's something that's gonna make or break the music at this point. I don't think it's as important as it was back in the earlier days, whereas it was really important that the early performances were a little bit more universal in scope, you know; to be able to kind of pull someone in that wasn't checking for the music. These days I think the artist has a little bit more of a comfort level, whereas they can kinda do something that's a little risqué or what have you because the music is established, you know what I'm saying? So, they get the opportunity to kind of take maybe a little bit more of a chance with that performance. But I think it's just as important as far as just broadening the scope of our music and I think we're at a place today where (almost like rock or even R&B) there's different facets of the music, you know what I'm saying? 

Like there's heavy metal and classic rock or what have, you know. That's starting to happen in hip-hop where there's the diversity of a West Coast, of a Southern, or of a boom bap [rap] or mumble (well, not mumble, whatever the culture calls it these days), you know. Like it could be a little bit more diverse today. And so, I look at the performances on television as still very important, like a performance on the Grammys or on an award show, or on a late-night television [show], you know, Jimmy Kimmel or something like that. All of that has tremendous clout for the music, you know what I'm saying? And that might be the vehicle that introduces it to people that really might've never seen it before. 

BVB: With all the options artists have now, do you think they get buried underneath all these different platforms and that diminishes the exposure they get because there's so much out there? 

Dres: Yes. I kind of experienced it myself as an independent artist. I've released projects on my own that I know were like really just solid, solid projects. And as a result sometimes of not having a machine behind you that can promote it to the masses, you know, it's almost like you can do something really quality and you're throwing it out on a crap board and you're hoping that your number comes up. You know what I'm saying? It's a ton of things that are on the crap board with you. And just to say, like some of it might be very much beneath the quality of what you're rolling, but it might land on that number. And that might go viral and the thing you did might not. And that's not to say that it's that artist's fault or the people's fault. It's kinda just what it is sometimes. Even something whimsical can beat something that's full of nutrients, so to speak. The music has become kind of fast food, you know what I'm saying? And sometimes, cats are content eating some cold fries, as opposed to a well-prepared salad. And, you know, you can't get mad at what someone was hungry for in that moment. You just kinda have to keep doing what you do and hope that the strength of what you're capable of perseveres and that eventually, you get the opportunity to be heard. 

And that's kinda my biggest thing. I'm an artist. All l I need is the opportunity to be heard and you'll be able to quickly differentiate what I do and what they do, you know what I'm saying? But sometimes I don't get that opportunity. And I try not to get lost in that because I kind of understand that's kind of the nature of the beast. Like, limelight kind of moves around, you know what I'm saying? So, it's not always going to hit you, and it's not always going to hit you in the right moment, but you kind of just stick to your guns, keep doing what you do. And I definitely salute all the artists that kind of stay true to themselves as an artist, you know, whereas a lot of other artists might try to do what's popular in the moment and kind of lose themselves in that. 

But at the end of the day, that's just kinda how it goes and you try to stay consistent so that when people do bump into it and they start looking back at what you do, everything kind of speaks to your walk as opposed to the many faces of the same artists trying to be heard. So, I mean, it's definitely a different game at this point, but it's still a game, nonetheless. It's a game you have to kinda figure out for yourself. And I also applaud the cats that we're able to kind of finesse their way into a situation where they can be themselves and they can kind of get the notoriety of what's current, you know, just to say like a Chance or someone who's independent and has found his way to being a viral sensation, as far as, you know, like people online heavily checking what he's doing independently. That kind of stuff didn't exist when we were coming up. There weren't all these platforms. But at the end of the day, there's plenty of music that doesn't find its way that I wish did as opposed to a lot of the music that winds up finding its way that I wish didn't. 

BVB: (Laughs) Yeah. 

Dres: I don't think it benefits an artist to speak against what becomes popular as much as illustrate the difference, you know? And even to the project that I'm doing right now, I'm working on this project, the DND project, which is Dres and Dilla and I entitled it, No Words. And the reason I entitled it No Words is because rather than me tell you what the difference is, I'm just going to show, you know what I'm saying? 

BVB: Right. 

Dres: And it's a masterful piece of work. I'm really, really blessed to have had the opportunity to kind of put this together. A quick synopsis of what happened was last year, I got the opportunity to meet Dilla's mom at a show of mine. I had a show in Chicago, and I wasn't like a friend of Dilla's like that. I had just met him once in passing. And yeah, he was close with all the Natives, but I probably was the one that he wasn't. And so, I had this show in Chicago and cats are like, yo, want to meet Dilla's mom to which, you know, just out of respect I was like, I would love to meet Dilla's moms, you know what I'm saying? 

And so, I wound up meeting her and her husband, Tony, and, you know, it was a nice meeting. We chopped it up, this, that and the other and kind of keep it moving. And then maybe a month or two afterwards, I was doing a charity event in Puerto Rico and I looked down at the crowd and who's standing like right there, like to the stage right is Dilla's mom and her husband, Tony. So, after the set, I kind of made my way to them. And, you know, I had just spoke to them a few months ago so, you know, we're just chopping it up. And it turned out they had a house in Puerto Rico and they invited me back for some cooking and they had some DJs coming through to play some music. I was like, aw, man, that sounds so cool. So, I wound up going to hang out with them and we're chopping it up all night. And they were telling me how they had just gotten back the rights to his music under the umbrella of the estate and they were looking for something to do with it. And they asked me, would I be interested in putting a project together from his personal folders, to which my mind was blown. 

BVB: Incredible. 

Dres: Yeah, exactly. I would have been very happy to just receive a track or two to work on, but to be able to put a whole project together was just mind boggling, you know. So, I of course accepted. And then I felt like it was for me to kind of do my homework, whereas I knew what he had done for the Natives and maybe a few other tracks here and there, but I wasn't well versed in as much as I am now.  

So, I literally jumped online and started listening to everything, every interview and, you know, like every track that I could find after all my friends that were Dilla heads, from Large Professor to Jaleel Shaw, [suggested] tracks that they thought were dope or significant and even lesser heard stuff. I told them about the project and, you know, like the whole thing was to find things that people hadn't really used. And if I was going to use something that had been heard, I didn't know, in picking tracks, what had been used and what hadn't been used. So, there was a few tracks that have been used, but I had never heard them. And so [I was] even investigating how they had been used. It might be a track that I pulled that maybe only 5,000 people viewed on YouTube. So, I felt like I could still use that. Whereas now, if it was, 500,000, I wouldn't want to use that, you know? So, it became this journey for me. 

And I just starting meeting a bunch of people. Like I wound up meeting his best friend, Frank Nitt, [and] Mike Ross, who was the first cat that gave him a deal, you know what I'm saying? And all of these people wound up becoming part of my journey and even helping me, you know, sending me tracks and things of that nature. I went to meet Tony down in DC (Ma Duke's husband) and I pulled out the tracks that I wanted to use for the project and literally only probably heard about an eighth of what was available before, you know. There's still a ton of things I hadn't heard but I had wound up pulling about 30, 40 tracks. I was like, all right, well, this is great for me to begin to. But I wound up doing the whole project from that, as well as a few tracks that Mike Ross and Frank Nitt had sent me. 

So, you know, it was just this incredible journey for me. It was very organic and I kind of kept the family in the loop with everything that I was doing. I'm at the point now where I'm mixing the final songs (I still have to master it). And I'm doing that with my guy, Pete Miser, who's just an amazing guy as well. Now I get a chance to kind of see it as a body of work. And I'm just so excited about it; having excitement inside of me that kind of is reminiscent of a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing. I know I just did something, but I won't know what it is until it's released, you know what I'm saying? But people are going to get a chance to hear me in a way that they've never heard me before. 

And, you know, I'm doing some really, really cool things. Like I said, it's called No Words because I wanted to show you as opposed to tell you. And so, I'm doing a few tracks where people are going to be like, wow, I had no idea that he was even capable of something like that. And, you know, it's just a really exciting moment and just leaked the very first full-length track, which is Dilla Drums, featuring Chuck D. And the features on this project are insane. I mean, they range from Bun B, to Chuck D, to Freeway. I mean, just all kinds of cats are on this project. Like it's literally a who's who of really dope cats. Sauce Money to Corey Gunz, you know what I'm saying? So, I feel really good about what the people are going to hear, but at the same time, coming full circle, I'd be crushed for this project to get lost in the gamut of projects that are going to come out at the same time. I would hate for it to get lost because it is possible that really, really good projects get lost. The multitude of music that gets introduced every day, you know? 

BVB: Yeah. I heard Dilla Drums yesterday and I have a feeling that this is a project that won't get lost. That track is incredible. To hear you and Chuck D rhyme over a Dilla beat, it was just mind blowing. It's phenomenal. I'm so excited about this. I'm sure that everyone else in the community is too. So, I don't think you'll have a problem with folks not being able to hear this or missing this project. I think people are ready for something like this. We need something like this. 

Dres: Honestly, that's kind of a hope, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, I kid you not, I've had this hope before. I don't even know if you know, but some years ago, I put out a couple of independent projects that I think are really exceptional and I put out a project with Jarobi as well [and] I thought people were just gonna gravitate to it and it just didn't happen. The evitaN project, (the project with me and Jarobi) which is native so backwards, I always felt like as soon as anybody hears me and Jarobi have a project, everyone's gonna want to hear it. And it was one of the projects that got lost amidst the ton of things that come out, you know. So, I totally understand that it's possible. 

That's why I say that because I'm not taking for granted that this project is going to become what what I want it to become. But at the same time, the leak of Dilla Drums was very intentional. It's not even mastered yet, but with five days, four days now before the election, I realized, well, this song isn't as powerful after the election, you know, and this song definitely isn't as powerful if the project winds up coming out, say at the top of next year, you know. A song like this, it's dope and this, that and the other, but it doesn't have the power that it has in this very moment; pushing people towards the polls and speaking to what we're up against. So, the leak, this was a very intentional, big boy decision. And, you know, to understand as well, like, if it does what it's capable of, it'll become a really cool promotional vehicle for the project, which is what it's becoming. I couldn't ask for more, you know, but, I appreciate you saying that. Even the making of this record, you know, like I'm a huge fan of Chuck, you know what I'm saying? And the first two verses, I wrote his part because it was like, I had an idea of how I wanted to hear him. To me, like, that was how I wanted to hear Chuck. I wrote it very intentionally. This is how I like Chuck, you know, and he's done a ton of different albums whereas, you might catch different reflections of Chuck on a record. But this is the kind of Chuck that I think resonates with everyone, you know? And then he came with this third verse, his own verse. I kinda sent him what I had wrote and I kinda had done a version of it where I'm doing both of our parts for him to see just how I wrote it. And then he comes with this third verse that just blew me out of the water. And I was like, wow, like it was just so dope, you know? This whole thing, I had a lot of vision for the different tracks and this is my word, I feel like I got some of the best performances from some of the guest artists. It's an amazing project. Like I did a joint with CeeLo Green and he just bodies it, like with a rhyme. Everybody just gave me just this crazy performance. I think everyone's going to be blown away when they see it as an entire body of work. It's really a beautiful body of work. 

BVB: I can't wait for it. It sounds like through this whole experience, you were not only an artist creating a project, but you were also able to kind of just sit back and enjoy Dilla as a listener, discover more about him and his life and his work. Walk me through that. 

Dres: It was so dope. One of the things that's really kind of cool, I have a mini documentary that's being edited right now about the making of this project as well. So, that is going to be a really cool promotional vehicle for the project. But one of the things that happened was when I met with Tony, who's MA Duke's husband, I had to go to DC to meet him. They have a crib in Puerto Rico, but he has a crib in DC where he works, I believe. And so, I had to go down there to meet him. So, I meet him at a studio down here and the object was for us to go through folders to create a folder for me. So, we're playing tracks and what I like, I'm like, okay, I'll take that one. And that would go into my folder. Now, the things that I'm picking were, you know, like snippets, like literally. The Dilla Drums track was a 45 second snippet, you know what I'm saying? But this snippet had all the components of the record. Now for me to take all of these various snippets and to start creating from them was for me to kind of start understanding the internal workings of Dilla, you know what I'm saying? So mind you, I've done all of this. I've watched a ton of interviews and listened to a ton of tracks. But me being in the studio, picking from his creations was a whole different level because now I'm seeing that Dilla was the type of person that would do 45 seconds. He'd record 45 seconds, he put all of the elements, of the record [and say] okay, this is what someone would rhyme over. This would be the hook. This might be a change. And then he chop it and go into the next track. You know what I'm saying? he was not trying to make this arrangement for anyone. It was something that I guess he felt like he would come back to it if he decides to work on it as a full length, or even maybe that he knew that his time was maybe short and that he wanted to get out as much as he possibly could, but here's where the twist would come in. 

So now, when I'm creating these songs, I might have this loop that I'm about to loop up. And just as it's about to come full circle where I can loop it, the volume fades. And, you know, this wasn't on every song. It might be a song here and there that that would happen, but it would be so funny to me. I was like, he did that intentionally. I would just start laughing out loud and I'd be like, yo, he did that intentionally because now I have to be creative to get it. You know what I'm saying? You'd have to have a DJ's ear to kind of be like, oh, snap, all right. I can't take it from the downbeat. I have to take it from the upbeat, a bar before, to even catch the loop. 

So, it was almost like you had to be qualified to even make it a reality. And I'd start laughing because I felt like he did things like this on purpose. Now, let me tell you where it gets really interesting. I had started on the project and I'm probably maybe about halfway done recording and I've got some really solid stuff, but, you know, it's not mixed. It's just the rough of what I'm creating. And my youngest son, Sidney, he does some acting and he had got an opportunity to film something for Disney. So, we go out to California and and literally like it's Disney flying him out to California and I'm his dad. So, that's kinda cool. You know, that has nothing to do with me. So, we're out in California, and I'm talking to Tony and he's like, you know, would you like to meet somebody from Delicious Vinyl? They're the first people to sign Dilla, I'm sure they'd like to hear a few of the roughs. So, I'm like, oh, that'd be cool. He calls someone and sends them over to the hotel where we're staying and, you know, I meet him and we're talking this, that and the other. So, I'm telling them everything that I'm telling you, like, you know, how it started, how it happened and how I've been looking at Dilla interviews. And I'm like, you know, shoot man, I recall like seeing his boys pushed him up on stage. He's in a wheelchair [and they're] pushing him up on stage. 

And it was like his last show, somewhere overseas. He rocked up the spot from the wheelchair. I was like, you know, it brought tears to my eyes and, you know, I'm just telling him the story and this, that and the other and everything that I've been going through creating this stuff. And so after I tell him everything and I'm ready to play him some stuff, he was like, yo man, like what you just said is crazy. He was like, yo, I want to tell you, Dilla was my best friend. He's like, the cat that pushed him up on stage that you saw? That was me. The tracks that you're pulling from, I'm the one that put those folders together. And I was like, you gotta be joking. And this is Frank, Nitt. And I was just blown away. 

Like, wow. And every single aspect of this project has happened just like. It has happened so organically, you know what I'm saying? Even the people that shot the mini documentary. I was saying to myself, I gotta find a way to kind of document this. And literally like maybe an hour or two, after I'm telling myself this, I get a phone call from the cats from this company called Versus. And they shot, Chi Ali's documentary. And they were like, yo, we heard about what you're doing. We'd like to film it for you. And, you know, like everything just comes so organically. And it's just been this amazing journey. And one of the things that I think is really cool as well is like every single thing that has happened, I reach out to Ma Dukes and I reached out to Tony and I tell them, and, you know, and I share it with them. 

So, it's almost like we're walking this thing together and, you know, and I'm even proud of that because, you know, I kinda have my own legacy as Dres and as Black Sheep. But I've come to realize that Dilla was like just beloved to a level that I had no idea even existed globally. And like I'm being given the opportunity at this point in my career to stand on his platform and present something which is going to help me cut through a lot of the things that we've just spoke about. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's one thing for Dres to have a dope project, but as soon as it's a dope project that Dilla produced, everyone must hear it. You know what I'm saying? 

Everyone is like, I have to hear it. And honestly, that's all I need. All I need is for you to hear it once. And I know what's going to happen because I know what I'm capable of. And so I feel like that one person is definitely gonna listen. If [it's not] on the strength of who I am, it's definitely on the strength of who Dilla is. So, you know, I'm grateful just going on this incredible voyage. And cats feeling how they feel about Dilla Drums. It's very timely and it speaks to this very moment, but I have an entire album of that, you know what I'm saying? It's 13 or 14 songs, I'm trying to decide now which it's going to be. 13 or 14. But every single one of them could be a single, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like that strongly about it and that grateful at the same time. Like this has just been an amazing adventure for me. You know, it's coming at a really beautiful point in my life. It's not 25 years ago where it was just this young rambunctious, Native Tongue cat that is trying to prove something. It's coming at a point where I'm trying to say something, you know. And it feels really, really good. 

BVB: Sounds like Dilla is blessing the project from above. 

Dres: Totally. And that's another thing too. Like, you know, when I first started the project and the people were hearing that I was doing this, some cats were like, why is he doing it? Like, you know, he's old. Why isn't there some young, new cat? Why isn't there [someone like] Lil Wayne or this, that and the other, you know. It became something where it was like [I had] a little something to prove. Like y'all got me twisted. You know what I'm saying? People were like, I hope he does it justice. And so that kind of became a theme to me as well. Like, you know, wow, people are really weighing this on a scale that I've been weighing them on (laughs). You know what I'm saying? That even kind of brought it further, whereas I'm not going to elaborate on anything.

I'm not going to talk about the difference between me and them. I'm going to show you, you know what I'm saying? There's no words that I can say [that can] illustrate to you. So, that's where really No Words came from. I'm not going to tell you anything. I'm going to show you, you know? And that's where my head is at. So, you know, like I'm really, really grateful on so many levels as well. Like, you know, I'm speaking for all the artists saying a lot of times hip-hop is definitely an art form that eats its elders, you know what I'm saying? You'll always hear the cats, like, you know, we don't mess with them older dudes or he came out then, you know what I'm saying? 

Like T.I. doesn't want to do a Verzuz with Busta because, oh he was out [then]. And that's not real, you know what I'm saying? Like, if anything, it's kind of the opposite. It's unfortunate that a lot of the elder statesmen aren't held in higher esteem, whereas they're given the opportunity to be heard. So, they kind of wind up losing their finances. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, it becomes a thing where they're fighting to stay current, and it's a very select few that are given the opportunity. But what a younger cat doesn't realize, and this is something that I hope eventually comes to an understanding, is that a younger artists needs to understand that in five years, you're an older artist. That's how quick our attention spans are. 

BVB: Right. 

Dres: A younger cat's supposed to bring out his influences, bring them on tour, always kinda kind of, you know, pay homage and make sure that the elder cats are alright. Like, you know, everyone owes Kool Herc at least the money of one show per year, you know what I'm saying? You're supposed to make sure that all of our elder statesmen are okay. You know what I'm saying? And so when we set the precedence that, you know, I don't mess with them older cats and we say that to the public, well, in five years, a younger cat is going to say that to you because you're the example. 

And if we flip that and show the younger cat that we always take care of our own, that we always spread love amongst our own, that you should hope to be an elder statesman because all of this awaits you. Then it starts speaking to who we really are and who we're really supposed to be. You know what I'm saying? So, I'm hoping that a project like this gives me the opportunity to say things like this because I feel like things like this are what people need to hear. And it's only when the five or seven years are up and that young dude is not the young dude no more that they realize, oh, snap. I really put this into motion. You know what I'm saying?

We should be able to learn from each other at this point and have a much better understanding of how powerful the music is and the things that we have generated. Like you don't have to be an MC, you don't have to be a producer or DJ to reap the benefits of hip hop today. I remember the first time I heard a beat on television, you know, like in a commercial. I literally ran to the television because I had never heard a beat being used before and this isn't even a rhyme. We hadn't even gotten there yet. But just the first time a beat, a solid, boom bap beat was used to promote something, you know, I remember that, you know what I'm saying? Like, it didn't exist before that. And that's how far we've come, you know what I'm saying? Whereas, you know, hip-hop is used today to promote everything, you know, globally. So, you know, it's been quite the walk and, you know, I almost look at it too as a child, whereas at certain points, hip-hop was only 20 years old and the average 20 year old is making a lot of mistakes in life, you know? So, hip-hop kind of bumps his head on occasion, but that's just to say that, you know, it's still growing up at this point. It's a little bit older, whereas we do really have the elder statesman. The Melle Mels you know what I'm saying? 

The Theodores, the Disco Twins and, you know, the Hercs. We have elder statesmen that we're supposed to check on. A Drake or whoever's current always has to remember that they stand on the shoulders of greatness and there's a price that should be paid for that. Us performing on In Living Color or, you know, Arsenio like didn't make us rich. Like if The Choice Is Yours dropped right now, I'd be a multimillionaire, you know what I'm saying? But at that time, that wasn't even almost part of the schematic, you know what I'm saying? Like, I literally didn't look at it as I'm about to be rich now, you know what I'm saying? 

I looked at it as, you know, okay, cool. More people are with us now, you know what I'm saying? I've never been a millionaire in my life. That wasn't why I got into this. But today all of that exists. So, those that are able to reap those forms of benefit, they should turn around and just say, thanks. Whoever motivated you, make sure they're okay. And I'm not speaking to me, I'm speaking to whoever it is, saying, make sure they're good. Make sure your influences and make sure the people that gave up everything to just gain your attention are okay. You know what I'm saying? And that speaks greatly of you. And especially those that are of the mindset [of] we spent $50,000 in the strip club tonight. But the cat that inspired you is struggling, you know, is struggling to get a fucking filling. And that's where we become whole, that's what we become grown. That's where the community becomes a real family, you know? And we haven't gotten quite there yet, but I think that's where we're headed, I hope. There's a strength that we have together that we haven't fully claimed yet. I know there's more millionaires in the game than it's ever been. And once we get to a place where all of those entities can come together to form something that works for everybody, then we're showing off strength. Then we're showing the strength of hip-hop. Like that's hip-hop. Like, you know, if you've got a million dollars, and this is just a theory, but if you got a million dollars, you know, if there's a hundred people with a million, then a hundred people putting $50,000 that they might trick in a strip club together, that's powerful. You know what I'm saying? That becomes what, like, you know, $500,000, 500 million, whatever, just to say like that becomes something. Every year we're going to do this. And this year we're going to buy this building. Next year, we're going to buy this company. There comes the opportunity that we become much greater than ourselves. And I think that's the power of hip-hop that we haven't tapped into yet. 

BVB: Absolutely. I think that's what frustrates me so much. I'm seeing these millionaires and even billionaires partner with these racist institutions and people, instead of directly putting that energy into the community. 

Dres: Especially the communities they come from. It's almost sad, but like I said, I try not to judge too harshly because I do understand what it's like to be, you know, 19, 20, 21 years old and spending money or money on something frivolous, you know what I'm saying? You kind of have to grow to a place where jewelry doesn't mean anything to me, rims don't mean anything to me, you know? Those are the little things that we might've spent money on and there might be something greater, you know what I'm saying? 

BVB: Absolutely. 

Dres: But at the end of the day, they'll grow from that to realize, oh, snap, me doing that could have been this, you know, and especially if you have family. And this is my word. Like anybody that has family that's, you know, throwing 20, 30, 40, $50,000 in the strip club, if you've got a cousin that has a bill that needs to be paid and you're doing something like that, I think you're an idiot, but in the light of you being who you are and everyone that's around you, you're the man, you know what I'm saying? Like you haven't grown to the space yet where that matters to you. You haven't grown to the space yet where as opposed to you spending $250,000 on a car, you could buy 10 cars that cost $25,000 and give them to ten people in your family. Like you haven't gotten there yet. You know what I'm saying? But I hope that's where we're going. Because that's where my head is. I don't need a car that costs $250,000. If I've got ten cousins or, you know, I've got ten family members that don't have a car, I don't need that car. I can take one of the $25,000 cars that I bought ten of. You know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't matter. I'm still me getting out of that, you know? And that's what cats haven't grasped yet. You're going to be you, regardless, if you woke up on the spot, you're still, you, you know what I'm saying? And the people that think that it matters are people that don't matter. 

BVB: Yeah, I agree. I want to go back to ageism for a minute. Why do you think this is so prevalent in hip-hop and not other music communities? 

Dres: Well, I mean, I would say because essentially, hip-hop, it's combative. And I think it becomes, in my opinion, it becomes a way to reduce your competition. If I can dismiss some of my competition, just on the strength of them having put out three or four projects before I did, then that gives me a better chance of being relevant. You know what I'm saying? As opposed to, you know, me just combating against everything that exists and proving my metal because I deserve it. You know what I'm saying? Like in R&B, when Stevie Wonder drops a record, you don't have Trey Songz like, "naaah homie." You know what I'm saying? "You're yesterday." Like naw. You know, like if you hear Sade is coming out with a new record, the entire R&B community is looking for it, let alone every person that loves music period, you know what I'm saying? But if you hear Chuck D is recording a new record, you become this skeptic. Or if T.I. is looking at Busta like, you know, he might've looked at it like, there's no way in the world that I can beat Busta. How do I make myself great in this situation as opposed to earning your stripes? Sometimes you're going to get beat. You're not going to win every confrontation that you have in life. 

But sometimes you have to get beat in order to learn how to be victorious. You know what I'm saying? And not to say a physical beating, of course that's not what I'm trying to bring to the table, but at the end of the day, sometimes that's how you learn. You know, like if you take karate and you've been practicing for 10 years and you're in a tournament and you have to fight someone who's been fighting for 20 years, that's how you learn, you know what I'm saying? You And it's not for you to be like, uh, well, we're in the same division and this, that, and the other, but at the end of the day, like, he's been fighting much longer than me. That's life, you know what I mean? 

That's just how life is. But the lesson that you'll get from that is invaluable. And there's comes a point in time, if you're blessed to keep moving further, where you've been studying for 20 years and going against someone who's been studying for 10, you know? So, that's so unfortunate that ageism does exist in hip-hop to the degree it does. I'm at the point now where I feel like, sheesh, I really wish some of these artists had to be a certain age before I had to hear them. Like, that's how nonsensical they are. You know what I'm saying? It's almost like a middle-aged person trying to pick up a 20-year-old, a 21-year-old. As a grown man, I'm not even trying to have that conversation because we're just in two totally different worlds. But at the same time, there is a conversation to be had, you know what I'm saying? And it's not from the vantage point of me trying to manipulate the situation, whereas I'm getting something from it. Sometimes the conversation to be had is, let me explain a few things to you. Let me tell you a few things that might help you in your travels. I remember when I was this age... do you know what's about to happen? You're about to bump your head on [blah, blah, blah]. Oh, you're going that way? You know, what might be a better way? And we've eradicated all of that in our community, because we all feel like we know what we're doing. It's not that we're special, it's that we're fortunate. Like Drake, isn't special, he's fortunate. 

Kanye is not special. He's fortunate. I know a ton of MCs, a ton of producers that will eat these kids for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but they’re not fortunate, you know what I'm saying? And so like, a lot of times that comes into play and the fortunate person starts really believing that they're special, when in all reality, you're not doing anything that hasn't been done. This is my word. I remember before Kanye blew up, I was kind of just getting back to New York. And for some years, no one had heard from Black Sheep. We had separated, we was going our on way. And so, I started my own independent, route to kind of bring myself back into the game and I'm doing things independently. I don't want to associate with the label. I wanted to have my own label and just start learning and doing my own thing. So, I'm kind of working my way back up the ladder. And I had gotten to the point where I'm doing shows, and one of the people that would kind of always be on the bill with me was Kanye. But this is before this is before Jesus Walks. 

And so like, he's peeping my ability and I'm peeping his ability. He definitely has something definitely like, you know, I could see his ability, production wise and even show wise. He had a showmanship bag, you know, which was kind of cool, you know what I'm saying? But we're on the same bill and this is happening, you know, a good five to eight times. We rocked together before he came out. And so we wound up exchanging numbers and he says to me, "One of us is about to blow up." He's like, "You already did it. So, it was probably going to be you." He's peeping my new material, his peeping how people have people receptive to me, as well as me having the ability to go into the older stuff or whatever. 

But he's peeping like, oh, snap, like Dres is really kind of resonating with the people just as much as I am, if not more. So he says, to me, "One of us is about to blow up. Let's make sure we look out for the other one when it happens." And I thought that was so dope of him to say, like wow, that's what's up. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, that's cool. I appreciate that, man. And you got it. Definitely. You know what I'm saying? So, it wound up being him. And now mind you, at this point, me and him had each other's phone numbers. We were calling each other, talking on the phone, he'd come into New York, he'd call me and invite me to hang out with them, hanging out in clubs. 

I remember when he played, and I'm with him, the joint with Jamie Fox, Gold Digger. We're in a club and he gives it to the DJ. The DJ puts it on right then. And the whole club went bananas. I was like, yo, that's what's up. Like, it was the first time he heard it and it just resonated with everybody and the DJ wound up playing it two or three times. I was like, oh, that's so dope. You know what I'm saying? So kind of from there, it started really happening for him. In my head I'm like, you know, well, give him a little bit of time, let him get kind of acquainted to what's going on right now, but I'll give him a shout, you know, in a month or two. And try to get them either get a track from him or get him on a hook. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, let him do his thing. But you know, like it was his suggestion. I'm just going to follow up on it.

So, a few months go by and I reached out to him and he's like, "Aw, man, Dres. I got 20 checks for 20 different things I haven't even done yet. And I can't help you right now." And I was like, okay, all right, cool. Next time I saw him, you know what I'm saying, dude, literally acted like he did and know me. 

BVB: What?!? 

Dres: Like literally was kind of nodding [his head]. And then the time after that, I see him, and I'm walking with would be my wife later, I'm walking. I was invited by Alicia Keys to perform on her set at a show that he was on and I'm walking with my wife backstage and he's walking with an entire entourage and we're about to pass each other. And he's like, "Oh, snap, Dres. And he turns to his entourage and he says, "That's who should be dressing me. Dres!" And I just looked at him, this is my word. My girl grabbed me because I literally was about to spit at him. Like, you must be fucking crazy! But you know, my girl, she knew, you know, like she just knows my energy. She was like, no. And I just started laughing. I was like, yeah. Okay. It's good to see you, man. I just kept walking, you know? And that's what this industry does to you. Mind you, you know, today, I'm just a little disappointed that that's who we passed the torch to. Like damn dude, like, you did us a disservice. I remember him getting with Showbiz to help him with his percussion. When I told Show what had happened, he was like, I wish you had spit on him. He was like, I remember him coming to the studio so that I could help him with his beat, with the percussion aspect of his beats, you know what I'm saying? 

So, you know, he's pulled and borrowed and kind of became his own whatever, but it was all results of the people he was around, the things he's seen. It was a group effort, much more than it was him being a genius; more so than him being the Picasso or the Steve Jobs. Like, get the fuck outta here. You sound crazy. And you know, the kids don't know better. You know what I'm saying? And for someone that's a little older to say something is hating. So, it's almost like we have to watch our art form become this diluted variation of even people wishing he was the old him. You know what I'm saying? And that exists. I'm just using him as an example. That exists on so many fronts in the music, but that still is a part of the music growing up, you know what I'm saying? 

BVB: Yeah. 

Dres: Those are the changes that we go through as artists, as people, as an entity. But that's that's how deep it is. That's how deep the age-ism even spawns. You know what I'm saying? From [the] moment one of us is about to blow up, make sure we looking out for each other. "So, that's, who should be dressing me. Dres!" I never got the beat, I never got him on the hook. [Kanye] never looked out for me. He literally got to the point that he almost didn't recognize me one time to the next time he did recognize me and I should be dressing him. You know what I'm saying? And you know, that's how caught up we get. There's gonna come a day when it all dawns on him, like, oh, snap, when a younger cat is looking at him, like, "Kanye? Oh man, shoot. Next you'll want me to battle Melle, Mel? You know what I'm saying? I think it's coming. But you know, until it does, cats won't realize like, oh, snap, I really bumped my head. You know? 

BVB: So how do you stay grounded and not fall victim to the influence of the industry? 

Dres: One of the things I personally do is I ignore the industry. The industry's become so cookie cutter, you know what I'm saying? Like one of the things I think, and I don't knock Jay-Z, but one of the things that I think people fell for was that there is a blueprint you should follow. Let me give you this blueprint and follow this blueprint and this equals success. 

Now everything that's popular becomes emulated. You know what I'm saying? So now the music sounds like one long song. I can't tell you the different "Lils" that exists. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I can't tell you the different "Youngs" that exists. I don't know. It's the same way I can present to somebody, yo, you can't tell me this time last year, what was the hot record. You know what I'm saying? That's how much it sounds the same. I don't listen to the radio. I don't. I wish YouTube didn't have views on it so that way you couldn't look and see, oh, it's got 10 million views. I like this. If it had no views, then you'd like something because you'd liked it. You know what I'm saying? And you know, that's what it's become. It's become, oh, she's got a million likes. She's fine. When in reality, girls all look the same today. It's almost like the music. There's just no originality. It's all become this cookie cutter thing. And for me to keep myself, I don't follow it. I don't adhere to it. I'm looking for the songs that make me turn around and say, yo, who's that? Because when I do that, that means that doesn't sound like everything. I like what that person said. They remind me of something that's real about this, you know what I'm saying? 

That's what I look for when I'm hearing stuff. And if something doesn't make me do that, then it's nothing for me to get caught up in regardless of how many people are caught up in it. And that's the majority of music today. The majority of the music today, you could be playing it and I just don't hear it. You know what I'm saying? And I definitely don't tune into it, you know? And that helps me keep my sanity. That kinda helps. That helps me to hear my voice. I don't go into the studio trying to make a song like, oh, if they like this, they're going to like this. Nah, none of that exists in me. You're going to like it because it's original, it's a well thought out schematic, you know what I'm saying? You're gonna see my thought process in it. 

I'm not going to sound like any of these cats and if I do, it's fleeting and by accident, you know what I'm saying? I don't subscribe to the blueprint, you know? And once that kind of started coming into play, then it became everybody just emulates whatever's successful. That was the music becoming the hustle. The music became a hustle and you know, I get it. At the end of the day, everyone's trying to have a better life, so I do get it. But at the end of the day, there is a contingency of artists that exists that would be doing it even if there was no hustle. This is what I was born to do. And I feel like I'm one of those people. So, you know, I kinda just do my own thing. And at the end of the day, I hope and I pray that that's enough. It was at one time and I think I can be again. 

BVB: Yeah, I agree. In present day hip-hop, do you see elements of the movement the Native Tongues started represented in the culture? 

Dres: Ehhh, yes and no. It's rare. You almost have to trick someone to like something that's intelligent, to a degree. Everyone is so cool with being substandard, you know what I'm saying? And I hate that we've become that. But I'm hoping that it's just a phase that we're going through. Like everyone is definitely okay with everyone's drug of choice and a chic that's with every dude, wants everyone to know it. And, you know, the things that just did not resonate in life have become the norm and everyone is okay with that. 

So when we speak to a Native Tongue, there are cats out there that I think are qualified and even some that might've even kind of gotten in our circle that I identified a long time ago. I'm not even gonna call out on names, but I always felt like certain cats were extra Black for extra pussy (laughs). You know what I'm saying? All of that existed when we was coming up and you could kind of see it, but at the end of the day. And that's not harp on anyone or anything. Certain things have always existed, period. And there's always gonna be somebody that's gonna kind of carve their agenda and their ability to carve their agenda. So, you know, things of that nature always existed. And that's not to say that they aren't capable of being an artist. But sometimes being an artist is more than what you're do in a studio and more than what you're doing on a stage, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes, you know, it's an extension of who you are. 

So, that being said, I see cats today that are dope, you know what I'm saying? And I hope that life and time offers them the opportunity to reap the benefits of being who they are. There's cats is like A-F-R-O out of the West Coast, Corey Gunz out of New York. There are cats that are just dope, you know what I'm saying? And you want them to have the opportunity to grow into everything that they can be. And at the same time, they're doing battle against everything that we're talking about. They're putting their project on the table next to things that might smother them. 

And that might convince them to alter and this, that, and the other. So, you know, it's a funny day and not just the music, it's a funny day in the world, you know what I'm saying? Even us dealing with everything that we're dealing with. As crazy as the world is today [from] the presidency to the pandemic, when you put music into the mix, it goes with it. In my opinion, music should always kind of reflect the times. And this music really does reflect the times. It's a very confusing time. It's a time of people having their own agenda, to the contrary of what's best and what's worst, you know what I'm saying? Even like a Trump saying that he does things for Black people. And he will do something for Black people, but you better believe that he's only doing it to fulfill his agenda. 

BVB: Exactly. 

Dres: If his agenda didn't exist, neither would the things that he's done for Black people. He might extend the money, give it to the Black colleges, and in the same breath that he retweets the Boogaloo Bois. You know what I'm saying? And it's nothing for him to do it as long as his agenda is fulfilled. For people not to see that is for them to think that he's doing something for Black people. And the music is like that. There's an agenda, you know what I'm saying? And that agenda is like, I give to my community and in the same note, we're finding out that you haven't spoken to your child in three years. 

Like fuck the community like, yo, you have a family! And that's the type of thing that I'm speaking to where it's like there's things that might get done, but it's only being done to fulfill an agenda. And that agenda is really dangerous at the end of the day. You know? So regardless of what one group of people can say, the larger picture, the things that really matter in that picture, aren't being taken care of, or even acknowledged, you know what I'm saying? And that's kind of what we're dealing with right now. The music definitely is speaking to the chaos. And you're a bad person if you say something about it. 

That's how programmed we've gotten. And that's not for me to say that I'm perfect or anything like that. Nah, I bumped my head plenty of times in life. But as I've grown into the man I am, I had to acknowledge, at least within myself, that that's not who I want to be. I had to get up, I had to clean myself off and I had to move forward with the understanding that if I do the same things, I'm going to get the same results. So, let me as a person learn from the experience that I've just bumped my head and I've got the scar. Okay, cool. How do I prevent this from happening again, moving forward, you know? 

And I don't think that exists right now, whereas we're trying, we're trying to be better. You know? But you know, like I said, I don't want to come off too preachy. I think life has just afforded me the opportunity to know a little better. And we're all headed in the same place. I'll use the analogy, some people take a bike, some people walk, some people take a train, some people drive, some people take a boat, some people fly, but we're all headed in the same direction. 

BVB: In an interview you did last year, you said Trump won't win the election again. You said hip-hop, won't let that happen. And with election day around the corner, I'm wondering if you still feel the same way. 

Dres: I was thinking about those very words today. And you know what? A small portion of me was like, wow, I thought we'd have a much stronger, unified front. But I look at the record Dilla Drums, and I can only be like, at this point, well, I guess I was speaking to how I felt and my intentions, you know what I'm saying? I felt like there'd be a contingency of artists that saw how I saw it and that would speak to it. You know what I'm saying? I felt like there is a Native Tongues, there is the slew of artists that just aren't comfortable without putting something into the world that speaks to the times. 

I knew I was going to. But I had expected more. That being said, there are artists that exist that are speaking to it. And I hope that we're making a difference. I definitely find a little bit of satisfaction that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, but at the end of the day, when I said that I had no doubt [that hip-hop won't let Trump win], today there's a drop of reservation in that statement, you know what I'm saying? I never saw the music becoming what it is, but I also never saw it being as lucrative as it is. 

Like, this becomes this thing where it's literally approaching a billion dollars and cat have hundreds of millions of dollars. That thought alone never entered my mind as a younger artist because it just didn't exist, you know? So, you know, as much as I didn't see that, I didn't see the contingency of people that would vote for Trump because he's not going to tax me at a higher rate. I didn't see that being able to exist in hip-hop. It is what it is to a degree, but I'm hoping [what I said] winds up being the true statement. And I do see those that are standing their ground and standing with the people and getting out and marching doing the things that matter, you know. 

I'm of the notion that the Democratic party shouldn't take for granted that they get our vote, because the world is what the world is under their watched too, you know what I'm saying? The world is really, really screwy right now. And it's not because it's just been Republican led, you know, like it's been both parties that have allowed us to stand where we stand today. I hope that we, as a people, kind of take back our power and I think first things first, get the person that's willing to let hundreds of thousands of us die out of office. 

That's the first thing to do. But from there, it's for us to take some of the burdens off of our shoulders that have been on our shoulders for generations and give it to whoever it is that's going to afford us that, you know what I'm saying? And I don't care if it's one of those parties, a new party, this, that and other, like no more of us just blindly giving something to someone that's going to take it for granted. Even Biden and them not meeting with Ice Cube. Now, mind you, I don't look at Ice Cube as an authority on anything, but he has something that no one else had brought to them that spoke on behalf of a vote that they take for granted. And for them to not even sit with him means that they really do take that for granted, you know, like I don't have to sit with you, I've already got that. 

I want to reiterate, he's not in authority, nor does he speak for Black people, but at the end of the day, he is a voice that has something to say and presents something from an angle that has never been brought to them. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's no artists that has wanted to sit down with someone that's running to speak to our plight, you know, and for them to not even take a moment to do that, but you'll sit with Cardi B and whatever, that's how much our voter is mean taking for granted. And we need to take that back and make whoever we move with earn it. 

As much as the people who believe in Trump, and he's bamboozled them, at the end of the day, they believe that he's spoken to their issues. No one is speaking to our issues for generations and generations. Our issues were our parents' issues and were their parents' issues, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, all of this has happened on both the Democratic and Republican [side]. They're both two wings of the same bird. And right now it's for us to adjust the direction that bird is flying in. They're just the left and right wing. And at the end of the day, like, you know, like if we don't put in some coordinates, then they'll fly however they feel. And we've been in the place where we just have to deal with where we land. And we got to stop that as a people. 

I just wanted to reiterate, in my opinion, that's the power of hip-hop. Hip-hop is powerful enough to give coordinates, you know what I'm saying? And we have to be wise enough to see that. We have to be wise enough to not sit back and think that this ride we are on, this private bird that's flying has our best interests at heart. Like, nah, we have to be strong enough to input the coordinates. This is where we need to go right now. And if you're taking us here, then I'm with you and if you're taking us here, this is not my flight. 

BVB: I think we need to recognize the power the community has and also take control of it. 

Dres: Yes, totally. I've always been content being me. To me, to be a politician or to speak for the people, I was always under the assumption that you had to be grown for it, you know what I'm saying? I've done a ton of things that just probably wouldn't reflect well as a politician. So, I've never been one that's been boisterous about what we should be doing. But I've come to realize that doesn't matter. And yesterday sometimes has no bearing on today, let alone tomorrow. And as I've gotten older, I've come to realize that yesterday is every reason why I should be speaking today. Yesterday is every reason why I should be speaking. Those infractions and those bumps and those stumbles are why I can tell you from experience this is not what we should be doing. You know what I'm saying? I've lived what some people would be accused of. You know, like we've all made those mistakes. As long as you stand above them today, then you're qualified. If those mistakes stand above you, then you're not.