El Da Sensei

A little over a year ago, I did my last in-person interview until further notice. I chopped it up with DoItAll in Newark, went back to Philly and then shit hit the fan shortly after that. Here we are, 12 months and some change later, still trying to navigate a global pandemic. It seems kind of ironic that my latest conversation would take me back to Newark. No, I wasn’t actually there, but speaking to a New Jersey native sorta brings it full circle for me. 

El Da Sensei is one of the hardest working MCs in the game. He started rhyming in the early 90’s and hasn’t really slowed down since. If you need an example of what longevity looks like in hip-hop, he’s your man. Not only did El experience success as one half of the Artifacts, but he’s also established an impressive solo career, releasing numerous projects after he and Tame One parted ways. His next record will be a reunion of sorts in a few ways. Later this year, the Artifacts are set to release a brand-new album (No Expiration Date), one solely produced by Buckwild. This combo is one we experienced through Between a Rock and a Hard Place, Buck producing several tracks on the Artifacts debut album. The return is one heads have been thirsty for. Tame and El are equally great MCs when they’re producing solo work, but when you put them back together, the possibilities and rhymes are endless.  

BVB: I want to preface my first question with a story. This summer I was walking my dog (I live in West Philly) and like a block down and a quarter block over from my apartment there's this parking lot connected to a school. When it's nice outside, kids take over and they skateboard. And so, I heard this music coming from the parking lot and I'm just like, what are they listening to? And I hear, C’Mon Wit Da Git Down. I'm like, how the hell do these kids know this song? Because when I say kids, I mean, there's no way they were older than 16, 17. So, I'm wondering, what do you think connects today's youth with the music and artists of an era that most of them weren't even around for? 

El Da Sensei: I would have to think that [has to do] with the movie Kids and the affiliation we have with the skateboarders and hip-hop been for a long time. And we was in the Thrasher magazine in '94 or '95. So, that had a lot to do with it. And the videos I see on, on YouTube or Instagram, a lot of the cats still skate to the older music. So, for some reason, we'd always wind up in one of these tapes and but it's everything from the first album. So, it's kinda, I won't say weird for me, but I tell a lot of people that we have a lot of young fans and especially in that world, and just before the COVID started last year, we had did a skate shop showcase in Baltimore, and even that day, it was a lot of young guys. There was some older dudes there because they knew me and came for my music, but a lot of young cats heard about us through skateboarding. So, they was there and it was dope because I liked to see that because it make us feel kind of relevant. And the youth and [them] skateboarding, it's not them being on a street corner or anything like that. They skating. And that's a good thing. 

BVB: Talk to me about the new Artifacts album, No Expiration Date. It's being fully produced by Buckwild and it sort of feels like a return to Between a Rock and a Hard Place. How did the reunion come about? 

El Da Sensei: Well there's a label in Germany, Smoke On Records. My man, Joey, he was already working with Buck on a lot of his instrumental albums and remixes that he had put out. So, I already was talking to Buck about doing some stuff. The label was working with us with the reissue of That's Them and we had put out a vinyl copy of the demos we did back in the day from '89 to '92. So, it made sense for us to do this, you know, Buck, he was ready and he came to the crib, he played me and Tame some beats. And the beats that you hear on the album is the ones that he played us. And we pretty much looked at it as, like you said, a restart from all of our beginnings because Buck started off with us with C’Mon Wit Da Git Down and the remix and a couple of joints on the album (What Goes On, Attack of New Jeruzalum). 

And it has made a lot of sense. But today, like you said, a lot of the young cats heard of Buck through the nineties, from a lot of hit remixes. And then to him working with black Rob with Whoa and a lot of the Bad Boy music, and even today, you know, Buck has been working with Celph Titled, Meyhem Lauren, you know, a few cats overseas, my man McGyver. So, for us to do this record was a testament to our craft and longevity to be able to even do this record. I would want everybody to know whatever you are expecting in the record, it will be on there. There's a lot of heavy baselines, a lot of scratching, you know, pretty much an updated version of me and Tame today for anybody that had been following us over the years. I think that a lot of people will be happy with this record. It's 10 joints and I hope that it will be nothing to skip through for all these people that are waiting for this record, you know? And I don't think y'all will be disappointed. 

BVB: I don't think we will either. I mean, it's something that the culture certainly needs right now. These are the kinds of projects that we look forward to, especially heads like me that are in their late thirties and live off this shit. We're ready for it. Originally you planned to release No Expiration Date at the end of 2020, and then you would tour in 2021, but I'm assuming the pandemic altered that decision? 

El Da Sensei: Definitely. And in a good way, because I said with all this going on with the pandemic, I told everybody they should be really making the best music, you know, and there's no need to rush. What would you want to do? Because we all know we can't go outside and promote this record in that kind of way. But what we can do is be patient. And, you know, I told Joey at the label, I said, look, we ain't got nothing but time. This will get everything perfect in a way where everybody will know that this record gonna come out, cause we all home. And hopefully, God willing, at the end of this year, going into next year, it will still be time to promote this record and go on tour because by then everybody would have it. We're going to shoot a lot of videos for this record and you know, I never looked at [the pandemic] as a bad thing because it made the record better. 

It gave us more time to mix and master the record. We already got one video we shot actually two years ago. It's funny too, it's one thing I'll say about the video without giving certain things away. Tame wore a mask in the video and pretty much throughout the whole thing. And I kinda was bugging off it cause I'm like, yo look. You know, he took it off sometimes, but it makes more sense now today when you see it, because we gotta wear a mask now. So, it's kinda dope. He got a styled out mask, but it was still funny to do it that day to now having to wear one. And he got it on through the whole video. 

BVB: Yeah, it's a foreshadowing I guess, huh? 

El Da Sensei: Right, right. You know, it was kinda like, bro, you was predicting the future back then. You didn't even know. We had no idea. So, this is going to be something for everybody. Like I said, everybody's gotta be patient like we have. And for all of that, the artwork is done and we got it the way we wanted it. And some people have seen the artwork so far on my Instagram page. So, you know, it's almost time. We just gotta let the process go through with this vinyl, you know, with the manufacturing. 

BVB: Yeah and to your point, why rush it? That seems to be one of the biggest things that has changed about the culture and just music in general, how often people put out projects. Like 10 projects a year! And I just think that is crazy. 

El Da Sensei: Yeah. And I think with us being home, we noticing in it now, you know. You don't have time to soak all this stuff in. It gives the artists an outlet on what they really should be doing rather than just pumping out so much music. You know, you gotta give the listener some time to like actually sit with the record. 

BVB: Do you think that takes away from the impact, releasing all those albums within a short span of time? 

El Da Sensei: Yeah I mean, because it's like, I see a lot of people put out a lot of free music too like that, you know, where it's like for me personally, I don't have a lot of time on my hands to do a lot of music where it's going to be for free or not like a real release. It has to be like everything just like as if we was on a label. So, if you look at the year that you have to do all of this stuff, like even if you say January and you put out a record in January, you want that record to last for at least three months to, you know, just have the world, you know, peep it out. I mean, you can try to put out a record towards the end of the year, but you really have to give yourself time to have a plan when you put the record out as well, like promotional plan, marketing and everything, because you don't want to just throw shit out there and it's not being accepted or people don't even know it's there. And then you offer the next one and then the next one, it's like they don't even know you put out the last two. 

BVB: That's what it's like for me because it's just so hard for me to keep up. 

El Da Sensei: There's so many people putting out records. 

BVB: So many people. It's like as common as going to the bathroom now. 

El Da Sensei: Right (laughs). 

BVB: I remember when I was a teenager, it was really rare for you to release two albums in the same year, let alone 10. 

El Da Sensei: And DMX was the first. 

BVB: And he was one of the only people that successfully did it, in terms of record sales. But yeah, now, two is nothing. 

El Da Sensei: Yeah, I mean, last album I put out, whew. I don't try to, you know, go too crazy. I do a lot of features, but when it comes to full albums, like what me and Sadat did, that took like seven years to do that record because we was doing Brand Nubian, Artifacts in between all of this stuff and touring at the same time and having to get the recognition and everything, but that made for a good record. And we know what we had to do to do that record, but we also know what we have to do to do the next one, which will probably be much faster. And we learned a lot doing that record. But even with the Artifacts record, it took us two years to do this. You know, people would think it'd be done faster. That doesn't make for a good album. 

BVB: I agree with that. It's quality over quantity, so why rush when you don't have to? 

El Da Sensei: Especially when we can't go nowhere (laughs). 

BVB: Word. So, back to the Artifacts. Before Between a Rock and a Hard Place, you all were on Stretch and Bobbito and things really started to take off after that. What year was this? 

El Da Sensei: This was like '93. '92, '93. 

BVB: Back then, that was such an important platform for people. There's a lot of folks that can say after making an appearance on the show, their career took off because it just served as a really important vehicle for up and coming hip-hop artists. Knowing that nothing will ever replace Stretch and Bobbito, what platforms in 2021 effectively give artists exposure in a similar way? 

El Da Sensei: Well, for me, it's mostly always going to be the DJs and their mix shows, whether they're on college radio, if they on YouTube, cause you can't be on IG live like that no more (laughs). So, whether it's Jazzy Jeff, you know, I was just watching him the other day for Dilla's birthday. And he played one of the joints we did, that Dilla remix for The Ultimate. So, if people wasn't following Jeff, and if they are, that's how they see stuff like that, where they probably never thought that Dilla made a record with us and he did. So, a lot of DJs, like DJ Eclipse on Sirius Radio, things like that, you know, there's a lot of platforms, way more platforms than it was back in the day. 

Cause we couldn't rely on the radio to play our stuff, unless it was college radio or like say Evil Dee had a show on Hot 97 or Future Flavas when Pete Rock and Marley had a show, or even when Stretch and them was on Hot 97 after they left Columbia. So, now with online radio, a lot of DJs have shows all over the world. It’s not just regulated to New York radio where that's all we had. Now it's worldwide radio online. So, you know, they more inclined to have a show like yourself. And I've done a lot of podcasts as well, you know, shows where DJs play music and do interviews. I liked that as well, because that plays in the tradition of where we come from and the world of Stretch and Bob. And, you know, I would also think that with a lot of these DJs that may follow me and Tame, they keep up with what we're doing. 

And that's the only because we still doing music. So, they look for these things and when they see us, and most of the time we work with, like I said, there's a lot of feature work that we do with certain regions. We'll get it. Like, we just did a song with these guys in the UK, the Jazz Spastiks. And they got a new album out right now. You know, when guys like that ask us to do music with them, when you see that resume in the catalog, it makes a lot of sense, and it helps what we're also doing, but for the DJs that follow these people that made be records, I see the response and the DJs that have heard the record that we did with them. And it's like Those Hip Hop Guys Radio is a Chuck D station. And so there's a lot of other flat-lined radio that's the subsidiaries of these radio stations where they know the music is out there and they getting their hands on it. So people that don't know these records that's coming out, they put these records out there to say, look, Artifacts is working with this Jazz Spastiks group. We follow they music, but they still making music. So, we need y'all to notice we gonna put it out and DJ still can break records like that as well.. 

BVB: So, Stretch and Bob, Artifacts were on the show and you guys took off after that. And then eventually you landed at Big Beat Records. I've heard you talk about you and Tame's time with the label and it sounds like they didn't necessarily know how to market your first two albums in the way that they should have been marketed. What challenges did you and Tame experienced because of that? 

El Da Sensei: Our thing with them was they seem to not know where our fan base was or they thought we didn't have one, you know. It was a lot of times when we would go up there and have meetings and we would show them like, you know, this is where it's at. It was not just regulated to New York and New Jersey or the East Coast, it was all over. So, it was always us fending for ourselves. And when you look at Atlantic Records, especially with the second album, now we on Atlanta, you know, it wasn't just Big Beats as this smaller label. So, we felt like, all right, cool, now we're on the big ship, you know, certain things should change and a lot of things didn't. And when you talk about people that are working there and some people getting fired and other people getting hired and people getting rehired and the people they just hired don't know what they doing from the last ones they had. 

So, a lot of discrepancies as far as, you know, where we felt they should concentrate on what we were doing and where our fan base was. So, you know, we never really got into any money issues with them cause we really wasn't doing it like that to them. To say, you know, why they felt like they should've put more into us because amongst us was still Junior M.A.F.I.A., Lil Kim. Even with Skillz being on there, he understood what we was going through as well once he got there because we are not on say a hip-hop label, you know, we was on that everything labeled. And I never lost sight of that because you think about all the other artists that have been on Atlantic over the years, whether it be K-Solo or MC Lyte. We knew. And when you listen to Wu-Tang and you listen to GZA, you listen to the label song, you know, he was right too when he talked about Atlantic. 

I just looked at that as the best opportunity ever. I was grateful for that because from that and leaving Atlantic, the way we did (salute to Wendy Day), in a way my lawyer actually had the contract set up. He even told me, and this is just being straight up honest right now, you know, he told me like, look, bro, I'm not no big entertainment lawyer where I'm looking at this contract. He said, but the way that shit look, I think that y'all should really think about after the fact because there's a possibility y'all not going to be on his label forever. So, you should think about what this name of your group stands for for you. So, when it comes to the time where you're not going to be on his label, you want to take your name and be able to skate up outta here and not worry about it when you do. So, that was the main thing that we fought for in the contract was to be able to say, when we leave Atlantic records, we can still be Artifacts and keep a hundred percent of this name for all purposes, whether it'd be merchandising and releasing a record. And it was weird cause a lot of people fight for publishing. And we fought for our name. But he was right. We wasn't on there forever. And I'm glad we did that because we've been able to use that name wherever we go. 

BVB: Yeah, that's important. It sounds like it was a huge learning experience for you all. I talked to Masta Ace about Big Beat Records because he was on there too. And when he was there, there was this pressure to produce a commercialized sound because at that point hip-hop had changed so much. Did you all experience the same thing? 

El Da Sensei: No, because actually we came when it was still like labels competing to see who can have the best underground artists. I'll say independent artists because, you know, we was on there, Double X Posse was just popping. This was still early for major labels to have a independent label underneath it, because even with our label, it wasn't it wasn't a total hip-hop label, it was a house record label too. So, we didn't really go through that part. And then also with the backing of the hip-hop culture, it was hard for the Atlantic to disqualify us in that way. So, we kind of made them at that time, like an official, not even to say it like that, but yeah, in a way we made it an official hip-hop record label for them where it was like from the fanfare that we brought to them, it was hard for them to be like...it was like having a good basketball player on your team and you got to trade them to somewhere else but the other team want a lot for it. So, it was hard for them to let us go or look at it as in a way where they're not that important when they know that we brought a vibe to them that they didn't have before. 

BVB: I'm wondering if you think that those challenges happen for artists, particularly hip-hop artists, when they're on a major label because the people in the room aren't necessarily passionate about the culture or have an understanding of it. 

El Da Sensei: Well, yeah, yeah because when we did the second album, you know, and we were doing the record, we didn't know that they were doing the soundtrack for High School High. My man came and he said, yo, for all these records, y'all recording, they still trying to find the one that put on a movie. We was like, what movie? The High School High soundtrack. And once he started telling me who was on a record, I was like, damn, word? Pete Rock and Large Professor and Wu-Tang? So, instantly we made The Ultimate and they picked that (laughs). So, we was good. But that was the only time I felt any kind of like pressure like that with like, you know, we felt like, damn, they can't pick none of these other songs? And with that record, even when we made it, before we even put the hook down, we was in there and we had the song playing and my man Daddy Reef (Robert Tewlow), he's in the room with us. 

And he's like, yo, this needs something. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm going to do the hook. He said, you know what? He's listening and he just left. He left the studio, went uptown where he lived at, came back in like an hour. And he had The Ultimate III MCs' record. He was like, now say the hook again, yo. Say the hook again. He said, okay, when you do that, now we're gonna put this record on. "Ultimate, ultimate, ultimate!" And it seemed like once he did that, we all in the room like, ooohh! But that's what made them take the shit! That's what made them like it. I was like, Reef, you had that, I don't know where that came from, but you made it work when you went and got that record. But once we did that and I understood after that, like, okay, you know, they going to be looking at us because we wasn't making records like everybody else, say Junior M.A.F.I.A. at the time. So, it was like, y'all better start making the records that's gonna sell some records like that. We was like, okay. 

BVB: It becomes about the money which is unfortunate. Outside of that, you've been an independent artist for a number of years, which I imagine is both rewarding and challenging. Can you talk about your experiences over the years? What was hard? What was less difficult? 

El Da Sensei: In the beginning it was hard as hell because I didn't know that if anybody even wanted to hear me by myself, without Tame. But circumstances that I was going through after a while, you know, I had to do something. And I would say like about like '97, '98, I talk about this in one of the songs with me and Sadat on the XL album, and my first verse was about me going to look for a job. I went to a couple of interviews, I got to one and this dude saw my resume. And he brought me in the room and he said, listen, what is this I'm seeing with you saying you was in Denmark and Amsterdam and London? So, I explained to him that I do music and I was just pretty much on a hiatus. 

I told him my group broke up and all this stuff. So, he told me to go back out of the room. He brought another person in and then he brought me back in and he said, listen, I want you to sit down. He said, first of all, I want to say that resume is crazy, even you working at this hospital and what you was doing there. He said, but like I'm looking at this Denmark and Amsterdam and London and stuff like that, and like you telling me you're doing music? He said, I'm going to tell you right now, sir, you need to, (and this is his exact words) "get the fuck out of my office right now. And you need to go back to doing what you was doing when you was in London, Denmark and Amsterdam, because I can't offer you nothing." Something like that. "So, whatever you doing, I think you need to get back into that and do that because this job ain't gonna help you get back there.” So, I walked out and I just was like, wow, okay. I called my man Matt Fingaz. Matt used to always come to the studio when we was doing the Artifacts albums. He always told me like, yo, if you get off, if anything happens, you want to do something on the side, you know, just holler at me. And it was like a movie. I had his card and everything. I'm looking at the card and looking at it, looking at and I'm like, let me call him. I called him and I said, remember when you said if I get off and if I need to do anything? He said, yeah, I remember that. And I said, does that still stand? He's like, yeah, you know, if you have somebody you want to do a record with who would it be right now? I said, Organized Konfusion. He said, well I got Mike Zoot and I got F.T. I said, all right, cool, Imma call Shawn J Period. I called Shawn and I go his crib, he gave me the beat and then I call Matt, I tell him I got the track. And then just like that, me, Monch, Prince Po, F.T., Mike Zoot in the studio. And I'm making my first single by myself. And I was scared to death, you know? And I went to Rawkus with the record first and I played it for them, not the Frontline record, but I played a record by myself just to see what they would say. He liked it, but then, you know, they was talking about they about to do Soundboming, Medina Green, Mos Def. 

So, I left and I called Matt. I said, okay, let's go off Fat Beats, let's knock this out, let's get it popping. He called me one day, he said, listen, I want you to meet me at Tower Records on Broadway. I got something for you. I get there, I see this dude standing there with him and it's the dude from Rawkus. And he got my record in his hand. And I drew the cover and everything. And he's like, yo, why didn't you play me this song with Monch and Po and them? I was like, cause I knew you would like that. I wanted you to take the record that I was trying to show you with me just to see if you would take it for me and not with them. Matt is looking at me and he's like, yo, that's crazy he had the record. I said, but Matt, I didn't play him that. So, that's why he feels like, you know, I should have played it for him. And like he would have took it, but I didn't want the strength of that record to get that. So, I was convinced then [I could go solo]. I said, okay, I saw reaction, the that record sold out. I said, okay, maybe I can do this. And then one after another. I had different labels coming at me. Mary Joy from Japan and Up Above Records with me and my man DJ A. Vee and DJ 3D. And I was like an NBA player on a 10-day contract with all these different labels. And until I just was like, okay, I can't keep doing this. Let me try to put out an album. And I went to Seven Heads Records and they put out my Relax Relate Release record. 

That was a good experience. I was able to see how people would take to having a whole album and then I just kept going. So, I just really didn't have an idea of how this would play out, you know, even outside of Artifacts. And then to get back into the Artifacts and still be able to do my solo record, it just made me feel emboldened to say like, you know, I can do this and still be in a group. And it wasn't so bad, even though all the things played out the way they did, me and Tame both has good solo careers and still do even being back in the group and to be able to do that as well. It just made everything a bonus, with what we was doing and from what I was trying to do for myself. But it got easier though after a while, you know, actually going on tour and having to get used to being by myself on stage. And I had to really work out more and breath control and knowing that I had to do a better show, I'm up there on my own. Even when I get back with Tame, what I learned on my own, what he learned on his own, we put it together to where we now feel more elite than we did when we was on Atlantic and Big Beat because we learned a whole lot more and got better. 

BVB: That's an incredible journey and I imagine it makes projects like No Expiration Date that much more impactful for you personally because of what you went through. 

El Da Sensei: Right. And I'm sure Tame can attest to some of the things he went through on his own. And that's what makes us so unique in our group. Me and Tame was like night and day. I always told him, I thought the perfect album cover for us would be The Odd Couple with Felix Unger and Oscar Madison. And people that know us would totally agree. But that's what makes our group so dope because he brings this style to the table and he has a following of his own just as much as I have. And we bring it together and it's like all these different people that like our music, but they know. My man always said, though, he said, El, y'all dope as hell by yourself but when y'all in Artifacts, y'all are great. I was like damn, that made a lot of sense. 

BVB: Sometimes I think you need to have that separation so that when you come back together, you're that much stronger. 

El Da Sensei: It's funny to say, but I always tell people it’s like being in a relationship as a couple, you know. It's like we both have shortcomings, but we both know what we're capable of. We both know that we can, if we focus, that we can do a lot more things that we probably didn't think we can do. And that's been our group all through these years. We came out, disappeared, came back out solo, came back together and it's all because of the fans. You know, the reason why we got back together, shout out to DoItAll and Lords Of The Underground, in 2008 they brought us both on stage. They forced us. The old New Jersey was out there like, oh my God, they on stage together. And it was like a bolt of lightning came into park when we shook hands (laughs). 

You seen it in the crowd and everybody was cheering, “oh my God, they're back, they're back!” And we ain't looked back since that day we was up on that stage. I always say, this is not for us. What we doing is personal, when we in the studio, when we making the music. But to put it out to the public is for the fans. It's for what y'all give us power-wise as artists to make these records. And I always say it's like an episode of Teen Titans. I watch a lot of cartoons. Teen Titans had an episode like that. A little fan dude they had, they had to understand what power he gave them as a fan to them. And he gave them the strength. It was wild for me looking at it from my standpoint. I was like, oh, wow. That's just like us but that's a cartoon. 

BVB: That's real though and fans pick up on that energy because it's in the music, you know what I'm saying? So, that makes them appreciate it. 

El Da Sensei: And they see we care when we making it. Cause if we made music that wasn't for them and just to make music for today it would suck for them. Because when you see the people that you really love from the past, the first thing you think is, let's hope they look good, I hope they sound good. 

BVB: Yeah and unfortunately in hip-hop, I think that's even more the case because we can be a little bit judgmental when it comes to our elder statesman, saying exactly what you just said. What do they sound like now? What do they look like? What are they bringing to the table after all these years? 

El Da Sensei: I get it, but like, I always tell people like, man, me and Tame has been making records over the years. So, it's not like we disappeared and came back. We've been consistent putting out records. It's almost like we didn't go anywhere. Even if we made records by ourselves, we came back together to do records on a good record. Marco Polo for Newport Authority Two. We did a do record on there, Back to Work. We did a good record on the Cannibal Ox album, Blade: The Art of Ox. We did a song that Black Milk produced and U-God is on it. So, it's like, you know, we've been on good records know and fortunate for that. Because, you know, if it wasn't for us sounding like we do skill-wise and everything like that, we would not be having this conversation right now. 

BVB: You've stressed the need for artists to constantly reinvent themselves so they remain relevant in a culture that's continuously changing. What has that specifically looked like for you over the years? How have you done that? 

El Da Sensei: Working with the producers that people know that's relevant for today. And I say that to say if I couldn't work with Apollo Brown, I was able to work with Illmind or say a Marco Polo. I don't always work with the more well-named producers, but a lot of the producers I do work with have a sound that's more similar to it, I would say. Like it's saying that, okay, El knows how to pick beats for today and make music for today because I tell people I'm a fan of the music of today. So, I'm up to par with all the artists that's out. My favorite MCs is still Monch and I love Elzhi. So. it's like, I try to make sure that people know that I'm still a student, even at my age of this, because if you're not, you're out of the the loop, you know? 

I worked with these guys in Poland called the Returners. When I met them, these dudes was 17 and 19 years old at the time and this was like 2007, 2008. And I heard of them through my man, DJ Illegal from the Snowgoons. I did a drop for them and next week after that, they asked me to do a verse for them for they group that dude produced for them and my man did the scratches. And then they came back again a week later, like, yo, do you want to do a project with us? I did one song. Then they flew me to Poland. I went out there with them. I'm one of the few Black dudes who be out there working with a Polish group. We did an EP and then we did a full album, which was dope. It had Akrobatik on there, Tiye Phoenix. I would say I was one of the few artists that work with Roc Marciano before he blew up the way he at right now. And I'm fortunate for that as well. So, it was a lot of choices I made to work with certain people that I didn't think would take me to a certain level. And that is what helps, because a lot of people like even rocking with Returners, they riding around in they car playing Double Barrel, you know, Marco Polo and Torae, they playing Barrel Brothers (Torae and Skyzoo). They playing all this stuff, I'm knowing the songs they don't think I know. I'm like, yo, I know way more than y'all think! 

We got to making the record and they heard my rhyming and they was like, okay! Like yeah, it's not just Artifacts, it's a lot of other stuff. But then they knew all of the records that I had done on Fat Beats and these singles and stuff like that. So, that was why they were more inclined to ask me. And also because I wasn't crazy with, you know, working with them as far as prices and everything like that. So, you know, I would say all the time working with a fresh sound always helps because it don't keep you dated. I think that's the most important thing. Just have a good ear and not be so confined into a box because you made records in the past that sound like that, but you gotta make records for today as well. 

BVB: Yeah, I agree with that. And that's how you keep from being stale. So, speaking to your incredible journey and your career and accomplishments, last year you were inducted into the Hip-Hop Museum in DC. I'm wondering what that experience was like for you. I'm imagining it felt surreal just because of all the things you've gone through. 

El Da Sensei: Yeah. Shout out to my man Jeremy Beaver and them out there, man. Jeremy, he’s a good guy. He brought this to my attention (me and Sadat). I was just like, oh! It's like I just make music and I never think about something like that. And I was really humble because I know you don't think people pay attention to stuff like that and you just making music. And he knows me and he knows how I feel about doing this music, you know. It's a job, you get paid to do it in so many different forms, in different ways, but the best way is still from the fans and with the people that was there. And some of my friends came, friends I have in DC came through, you know, they were more happy for me than I was for myself because they know how hard I work. They know how hard me and Tame put the work in through the years being in our group, you know, even with him not being there, he was in spirit. But it's also how Jeremy feels about me and my work ethic and what I mean to him. So, you know, if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't even have been there. So, I appreciate it. I appreciated it. I still do. You know, I'm just fortunate to still be making records at my age. And that's the thing, like you said, at this age, people don't think that you're capable of still making records that sound like the records they like, and even halfway what you sounded like back then. So, I'm always working. I'm always, you know, trying to get better and Jeremy noticed it. And I told him already, like, I'm not good with accepting certain things or whatever like that. He said, yeah man, you're the most humblest dude I know, but I understand. So, you know, I don't try to ever blow myself up in a certain way. I always knock on wood when certain things happen and I'm doing it now. So, I'm just, I'm grateful.