Masta Ace

I was familiar with his beginnings as an MC before Masta Ace recounted the details during our conversation a few months ago. But listening to him talk about this piece of his history is like hearing the story for the first time.  

It all started at United Skates of America. It was the mid-eighties, just a few years shy of the Golden Age. Masta Ace was then a college student at the University of Rhode Island, home on his summer break. He decided to put his rap skills to the test and entered a contest hosted by the New York skating rink, battling fellow MCs who were equally hungry to earn the respect of the audience by snatching first place. The grand prize? Six hours of studio time with Marley Marl. They came, they rhymed, they might have even skated and in the end, Ace was crowned the victor. He was now going to have the opportunity to record with Marley Marl, who by that time had already established quite a reputation for himself in the hip-hop community. Maybe this is why the producer felt he could keep the contest winner at bay. But Marley wasn’t dealing with some kid who would eventually count their losses and give up on collecting the reward. Masta Ace was persistent and wanted what was owed to him. For months, he tried contacting Marley, sometimes calling two times a week. Finally, after speaking to Marley’s sister several times over the phone, she gave Ace a direct line to Mr. Marl. Even after Ace directly connected with him, making it clear that he wanted the studio time he earned, Marley still wasn’t interested in working with the young MC (Ace waited for hours outside of Marley’s house the day they were set to record).  

So, how did Masta Ace go from being tossed aside to a member of the legendary Juice Crew? Marley eventually heard what Ace brought to the table and kept inviting him back to Queensbridge to record. At this point, Ace was well over the six hours of studio time the contest promised. And the rest is history. The same drive that pushed Masta Ace to pursue that studio time with Marley is the same energy he carried throughout his career. When Ace is determined to do something, he finds a way to make it happen. This undoubtedly accounts for the longevity of his career.  In hearing about the upcoming plans and projects Masta Ace has in store, he clearly has no intention of slowing down anytime soon. From a hip-hop musical to a new album with producer Marco Polo, there are a lot of irons in the fire. But there’s a process for Ace’s creativity and he will deliver the goods to us when he’s ready to. As we’ve all realized by now, it’s worth the wait. 

BVB: So, my first question isn't about music. I wanted to ask you about cycling because I've seen you riding with Trendsetters Bike Crew throughout New Jersey, New York, and even here in Philly. How long have you been biking? 

Masta Ace: I mean, I've had a bike. When you say biking, I mean avidly going out every single week, this is really the first time that I've been on it like that. I got my bike like two years ago, or three years ago on Father's Day. But from three years to now, I might've rode that bike maybe ten times in three years because you know, my family wasn't really riding, so it was just me. So, I wouldn't do a lot. But now with the gyms being closed and needing to find some outlet for physical activity, it kind of presented itself again. Then I heard about their crew (Trendsetters) and that anybody could just roll with them. So, I started rolling with them with my previous bike, which is a mountain bike. And I went out with them twice on that bike and this must have been in May (towards the end of May). And I rode with them twice with my mountain bike and I realized that I needed to upgrade my wheels because my bike has these really big tires. It's only a seven speed and I was definitely having trouble keeping up. So, I went out and I got a Trek hybrid, which is like perfect for me. And I've been riding with them since May. 

BVB: My full-time gig is with a bike share company, so it was great to see you out there with Trendsetters Bike Crew. And I love what they're doing. I love to see us, Black folks, creating these kinds of movements when we're not included in the conversation. I think that's happened a lot in the cycling world. This is something that's been happening in the craft beer industry as well, which motivated me to start Black Vinyl Brews. As a Black woman who brews her own beer, I hadn't seen a lot of representation in the business, but the narrative is changing in a lot of spaces; cycling is one of them. We're no longer asking for a seat at the table. We're creating our own. 

Masta Ace: Yeah, exactly. And a lot of these rides that I've been doing, they've been some symbolic rides; some for social justice and most recently it was breast cancer. As Trendsetters, we actually did a combined route with another bike crew that must've been back in July. And, you know, apparently a couple of bikers had gotten stopped by the police because of the neighborhoods that they were in and they got questioned. "What are you doing around here?" and that kind of thing, you know, so we did a symbolic ride with those guys, in response to the incident. And the one thing that they said before the ride was, you know, these police and these people in these neighborhoods, they need to get used to seeing Black people on bikes and just understand that, hey, we bike too like and get used to it. That was pretty much the sentiment. Get used to it. We ain't going nowhere. 

BVB: That kind of stuff happens in Philly all the time. So, that's what makes it exciting when Black and Brown folks create these entities (Trendsetters) because it's a representation of us. And I think that encourages other folks to get out there. 

Masta Ace: Absolutely. And it's getting bigger and bigger every week we go out. Now it's two crews joining in, three crews. This most recent breast cancer [ride], it was like seven different bike crews out there, about 300 people out there. It was nice. 

BVB: That's great. I'd love to see it. Switching gears a little bit and getting into the music, everything changed for you after you won that rap contest at United Skates of America. What do you think you'd be doing career wise if you hadn’t been gifted with that studio time with Marley Marl? 

Masta Ace: I think I would be working at a marketing company by now, probably writing beer commercials that play during the football games or something like that. I really think that that's what I'd be doing because that's what I wanted to do. My dream was to write TV commercials, like really funny ones or inspiring ones, but I saw myself going into the advertising world and I really had my sights set on that. Music was not even on my radar other than I liked to rap. And I felt like I was pretty good at it. But in terms of looking at it as an opportunity for it to be a career, that definitely wasn't something I was looking at. 

BVB: Were you able to use your degree in marketing in other ways in your career? 

Masta Ace: Well, when I signed to my second label, which was Delicious Vinyl Records out in LA, that was the time that I actually got a chance to somewhat use what I learned in school. And they allowed me to actually be in the marketing meetings. You know, in those days, typically artists weren't in those meetings. There were a bunch of suits that made the decisions on how they're going to market the record. And you know, as an artist, you just kind of went with the flow, you just focused on being an artist. But I really felt strongly that I had some something to say, and I'm glad that I was in those meetings. Cause you know, some of the ideas that were brought to the table were really corny. I'm like, oh, I don't like that, let's do this instead. And they actually took some of my ideas and implemented them into the promotion of my projects. 

BVB: I'm curious, have you ever thought about breaking into some sort of writing career in addition to your music? Most of your projects have skits in them and you create these visuals that go along with your rhymes. They really paint a picture. Have you ever thought about venturing into film or television? 

Masta Ace: It's so interesting, your question is very well timed. I'm sitting in front of my laptop right now and I've been working on a hip-hop musical for the past two years. And it's coming out really, really well. We actually had our first table read in March, right before the quarantine started and we had a bunch of actors come in and actually sit down and read through my script. It was my first time hearing the script being spoken by people that were the characters. That was a really great experience. I've also just recently started to write a pilot for a TV series idea that I had. So, like I said, your question is very well timed because that's absolutely my plan and what's next. I know what's next for me now. And that is to expand my writing to other areas of TV, the stage. And that's where I'm headed. That's absolutely what is in motion. 

BVB: I'm excited to see that in action. You're a very good writer. I mean, just listening to your music like I said, when you do these skits and they're acted out throughout the entirety of your records, it just paints this picture. And you have this picture to go along with each track and I think it just makes the projects that much more exciting. 

Masta Ace: Thank you. And this progression makes sense because when I do those albums and I have the skits, I'm actually writing a script for people to come in and read and I'm actually directing them on how I want the character to read. And so, I was already kind of doing it even though I was in music and it was behind a microphone. I realized that I was already kind of doing it already. 

BVB: That has to feel empowering, watching folks act out and read what you've created. 

Masta Ace: Well, I'll tell you when it became empowering for real was when a true, actual seasoned actor, Michael Rapaport, came into the studio and he read these parts for my album, A Long Hot Summer. He's actually on that album. He plays a character. But to have to have somebody like him, who, you know, is used to getting scripts, he came in and to be honest with you, it wasn't until he came in and read that I really fully understood the difference between people who really act and people who kind of just dabble with it. Like it was super obvious that he was trained, that he knew what he was doing. He was just so relaxed with it. Like most of the people that I had play on the skits on my album, they had no acting experience. They had never done this kind of thing before, they were just helping me out. And I didn't have to really say anything to him. He fully got it, you know, the little pauses and all of these strategic things that he did that I was like, wow, like that's the real deal right there. Like that's when you know. 

BVB: He's a great actor. And I think what makes having him on a project that you're creating even better is that he's such an avid supporter of hip-hop. 

Masta Ace: He loves it. 

BVB: And he knows his shit. He's not just somebody that listens to the music. He knows his shit. 

Masta Ace: Yup, absolutely. 

BVB: I want to jump back to the beginning and Marley Marl. I read about how he kind of ghosted you for months when you tried to collect your prize after the rap contest. At this point, you were already semesters in at the University of Rhode Island and it sounds like rapping was more of a hobby for you then. So, what motivated you to keep pursuing the studio session? 

Masta Ace: Well, I felt like, you know, I won this contest and I wanted what was due to me. That was the main thing. Otherwise, I could have taken second prize, which was $500. Give me that, you know. I'm looking more at that anyway. The $500 looked better to me. But all I knew was I wasn't going to win this contest, have this great moment and then all of a sudden, it not follow through. And luckily, the general manager of the United Skates of America, was helpful in trying to facilitate. He called Marley a few times too, because I was very persistent. I was like, yo, man, you gave me this phone number. And this dude is not calling me back. What's going on? And you know, he was apologetic because he had a relationship with Marley already cause I guess Marley had deejayed at the skating rink a few times. Luckily, Marley's sister is the person who ultimately gave me the real thumbs up cause she would always answer the phone. I mean, I was calling once a week, twice a week, sometimes. And it got to the point where she knew my voice, she knew my name. We had never met, I didn't know what she looked like or anything, but we spoke on the phone and she'd be like, "Hi Ace. No, he's not here." And that was to continue for months and months. And then one day, you know, I think we maybe had started some small talk and she just felt sorry for me. She's like, "You know what? This is not even his number. Let me get his real number." And then she gave me the real number and he answered right away. And I'm like, yo, this is Ace. I won the contest. You owe me some studio time. And he was kind of like, ah, all right, meet me on such and such a day, we'll get it knocked out. He really was not trying to make it happen. He was trying to avoid me. 

BVB: Did part of you pursue him because you also wanted him to hear how good you were? 

Masta Ace: I don't know that that was part of the motivation. I knew what I brought to the table, but I didn't really, to be honest with you, I didn't look at it as this opportunity to work with this super well-known, hip-hop producer that anybody would be happy to work with. It was just, I had confidence in what I could do. And so, it wasn't really about proving anything to him. It was just more about getting what was owed to me. That's what it was. That's what it was for me. 

BVB: When he did listen to you and notice your skillset, was it rewarding for you? 

Masta Ace: Now, here's the funny thing about that. He never really gave me (that I remember anyway) an indication that he liked what I did. The only way that I knew that he liked what I did was he asked me to keep coming back. We were beyond the six hours of studio time. And he's like, "Yo, come back. Let's record some more stuff." And so, I knew I was way past what I was owed at that point, but he kept asking me to come back. So that must've been a good thing. 

BVB: So, you saw the appreciation in his actions thereafter. 

Masta Ace: Exactly. 

BVB: And during that time, how were you initially received by the rest of the Juice Crew? 

Masta Ace: Well, the only other members that I met was Craig G. cause I met him the very first day that I went to Queensbridge Projects to record. 

BVB: He was waiting outside of Marley's house that day, right? 

Masta Ace: We were waiting outside. He came walking up and sat down on the bench. Must have talk with us for an hour or so. And I got cool with him, but I didn't meet Kool, I didn't meet Biz, I didn't meet Kane, I didn't meet Shante. I met Shan that same day I met Craig. When Marley finally did come home and we went up to the apartment, I met Shan that day also. Marley actually sent him into the back bedroom to work with me on some drum programming stuff. And I found out years later that, you know, Shan said, "Well, if Marley sent you in there with me, that means that he was just trying to get you out of the way cause he knew, I didn't know what I was doing." So, he was just trying to get those studio time hours done so he didn't have to deal with me no more. And it wasn't until I guess he heard me rap that he had a different perspective on it. But I met Kool G Rap maybe like the second or third session that I went back to. And the day that I met G Rap and when I say met, I don't think we like introduced ourselves or anything, DJ Polo came and he brought G Rap with him. And up to that point, Polo was working with another MC called MC Frost. And they actually had a song out and it used to get some airplay in New York. And then I guess from what I understand, Marley's like, "Yo, where's Frost? And [Polo's] like, "Oh, Frost is in jail. He got locked up. I got this new kid, this new dude named G.” And [Marley] said, "All right, so G's going to record this next song." They recorded It's a Demo there in front of me. Like the second or third time I was ever at Marley's crib. I watched them record It's a Demo. That was G and Polo's first time doing anything together. 

BVB: Incredible how it all worked out, from the start of the contest to where you are now. 

Masta Ace: Exactly. 

BVB: Fast forward several years later. After signing with Big Beat Records, you were pressured to create a certain sound to compete with what was on the radio at the time. And you decided that your freedom as an artist was more important and you went independent. How difficult was that to do back then? 

Masta Ace: Well, I mean difficult from the standpoint of making the decision, that's what was difficult because you know, it was uncharted water really. The thing to do was to get a deal. You get a deal and the label pays for everything and you don't have to worry. Like they cover your marketing, they cover your promotions, you get an advance. And that was just the way that you did everything. And so, for me to now decide, okay, I don't need a label anymore, I'm going to do it myself, it was really uncharted water for New York artists. I mean, they were doing that stuff in the South, selling records out of the trunk of the car and on the West Coast, they were doing that stuff. But in New York, we were really tied into the majors and getting that budget behind us and the push behind us. It felt like you weren't going to be significant if you didn't have a real, you know, backing of a real major label. That was a little nerve wracking. 

BVB: I can imagine. I asked that because I'm thinking about artists in 2020 and how many options and tools they have now. Just picture yourself coming out now, after the rap contest and meeting the right people and putting things into production. Do you think you would have signed with a record label? I feel like now it's so common for people not to be signed with a record label. I mean, I think it's still pushed to some degree, but not as much as it was back then. 

Masta Ace: Right. I probably would have been a rebel and gone my own route because it's a popular thing now. It's kinda like the thing to do, you know. I think it was Chance the Rapper that got nominated for a Grammy or something like that without even having a commercially released record. I think Drake did something similar too. 

BVB: There were a lot of people that got accolades and also reached millions of people without being signed to anyone's record label. I could be wrong because I don't work in the industry, but I think some of that might be because of what's available to people now. I mean those same platforms weren't available back in the nineties or even the early two-thousands. 

Masta Ace: It could be. I don't know what the real reason is, but I just know these younger guys, they have the opportunity to just be fearless because at the end of the day, they know that all they need is a laptop and they can put their music out to the masses overnight, you know, with no help. 

BVB: Without a manager, record label or any of that stuff.

Masta: Without any of it.

BVB: I want to talk about A Breukelen Story for a little bit. This was certainly one of the best projects released in 2018, but I also think it's a top contender for the best albums released within the last decade. I think it's an incredible record. Anytime I hear people talk about Brooklyn on or off a hip-hop album, there's a sense of pride in their voice that goes beyond a shoutout to the city. There's a deep love for Brooklyn that has always made it seem like a magical place to me. And I get that same feeling when I listen to A Breukelen Story. I'm curious what it's been like for you to see the city change so much over the years, especially because of gentrification. 

Masta Ace: I mean there's a part of me that's kind of happy with the changes because Brooklyn looks more beautiful. The downtown area is just much nicer. It's so much safer. Like I remember when those back streets in downtown Brooklyn, like you had to really look over your shoulder all the time. Like it was very dangerous and you could get a gun put in your face or a knife pulled on you and you get robbed on any given turn. So, I look at it from that perspective. The part that I don't like is that it's sort of being overrun by people who are not native, who weren't raised there. And it's that way because people who are native of Brooklyn, they can't afford the prices. Like they've basically priced out all of the natives, which is wack to me, you know. So, basically what they're saying is we're not going to make Brooklyn nice unless the people from the outside are able to come in here and live here and then we'll make it nice. So, it's kind of a bittersweet thing for me, a double-edged sword a little bit, you know? I like that it's safer. I like seeing people jogging and walking their dogs and riding bikes and stuff like that. But then there's a part of it that's really not that cool. 

BVB: Yeah, similar things are happening in Philly. 

I saw that you're set to perform at the Triple H Festival in Paris next October. When was the last time you did a live show? 

Masta Ace: It was in February of this year. Me and Marco had just done a tour that finished in mid-February. We were out there from mid-January to mid-February. We did a month and right after we got home, that's when everything went crazy. 

BVB: Have you missed it? 

Masta Ace: Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, touring is really the lifeblood of independent artists like myself. Without touring you know, you're forced to kind of live off of your website, your merch, features, things like that. And while that money is cool, it's cool as supplemental money, but not as your only money. The touring money is the money that really pays the bills. 

BVB: It's funny, I interviewed DoItAll in March and Lords of the underground and Onyx were getting ready to go do a European tour. And they were so hype. I remember talking to him about it and he said exactly what you just said. That's the artist's biggest purse. And then like right after I interviewed him, that's when shit start shutting down. It was crazy. 

Masta Ace: Yeah. I remember seeing that cause I saw them put up a poster and I was like, man, they're really gonna be able to go out there? And you know, I was just surprised to see was that they were advertising a tour and I was like, well, I'm looking at it like that's a good sign then. If they're going to be able to tour then maybe everybody's going to be able to tour. And then like you said, it shut down. 

BVB: He (DoItAll) had literally just talked to me about it and it looked like it was going to be so hype. They had just put out this video to promote the tour and then everything got canceled. I hope 2021 brings safer options and people are able to really get out and do shows again. You know, it's nice watching stuff from my couch in the living room, but it's also a different feeling to be live and watching some of your favorite artists perform. 

Masta Ace: I've turned down some virtual shows for that reason because you can't really, in my opinion anyway, you can't really get the true experience of seeing my show live by seeing it over the computer. It's just not the same thing to me. 

BVB:: Yeah. The energy is just... 

Masta Ace: There's no way to match it. 

BVB: You can't. You can't match the energy through a virtual performance when you consider a live one. It's just not there. I watched the Roots Picnic from my living room and it was great that they still did it. There's opportunities like that because of technology, but it's not the same thing. The crowd, the performer sweating on stage rapping your favorite lines. It's just not the same. 

Masta Ace: Nope. 

BVB: What's the demographic like at your concert, age wise? Do you have a lot of young folks coming out? I'm 37. Do you have a lot of 37-year-olds at your shows? 

Masta Ace: It's actually pretty surprising. I've noticed, especially recently, that there is a lot of young fans in the room. Like, I don't know how they even know who I am. A group of kids, they were in the front row of the show on this tour (we were in Italy) and it was like four or five young guys in the front row just rocking out one night. They came over to the merch table afterwards and I was like, how old are you guys? Two of the guys were 18, one was 19, one was 20. I'm like, that's amazing. That's what I've noticed quite a bit over the last like five years or so, that I'm getting younger audience, not full audiences, but young fans coming to the shows. I don't know how they hear about me; if it's through the grapevine or one friend tells the other. I don't know how it all happens, but it's just cool that it's not like a full crowd of everybody over 35. It's not like that. 

BVB: That is interesting. I think hip-hop has always been fueled by a younger audience. That's just how the culture has been since the beginning. And I think now kids have everything at the tip of their fingers. So, accessing your entire catalog is easy for them to do. Whereas people my age, back in the day, we had to dig. When I was a young kid, we had to go to the record store or your cousin had the album and you had to go to his crib and listen to it. There wasn't Spotify, or Bandcamp or none of that stuff. We had to really work for it. 

Masta Ace: That's true. 

BVB: And I think they hear about you because you're important piece of the culture. And I think now, when kids are really into hip-hop, some of them (not all of them) do their due diligence and they go back and they research things. So, it's not just them listening to people that came out within the last five years.  

Masta Ace: Yeah, I'm glad that that's happening. I hope it keeps going, you know. 

BVB: Yeah, absolutely. So, back to Brooklyn. I recently heard the Latoya Jackson remix and it's dope. I was wondering when you recorded your verse for that. 

Masta Ace: Oh, uh, sometime in 2019. I don't remember exactly where, sometime between '19. 

BVB: The original is great, but I really liked the remix with you on it. I was curious, what was your relationship with P? Did you have a long history with him? 

Masta Ace: I wouldn't call it a long history. We're from the same neighborhood. But he's younger than me. He wouldn't have been somebody I would have hung out with back in the day because he was a generation behind me. But, you know, we toured together. Well, we've done shows together overseas. We've done shows together in the states as well. And you know, one day, he actually came to the studio to record his verse for the eMC album. And we were just having a small talk and he's from, originally, from Brownsville houses. And I was telling him how this lady, one of my mother's really close friends, used to babysit me sometime from the same housing projects. And he said, "What's her name?" I said Irene. "Irene on the second floor?” And I was like, yeah! He said, "I know Miss Irene." And just like that, those weird connections that you can't really explain, but like when you're from that same area, there's always some way to connect the dots, you know. But good brother, man. You know, we didn't have all of the same interests and stuff like that. We didn't party the same or anything like that. But we had mutual respect on both sides and we knew if we were out anywhere, if anything went down, we had each other's backs. 

BVB: He was incredible on the mic. I mean, there's still projects being released now, obviously. The world lost a great MC. I didn't know him, but I've heard so many good things about him. 

Masta Ace: I rediscovered him strangely enough through a video game. Like I knew about Heltah Skeltah and stuff, but I used to play Grand Theft Auto. And he had a song on Grand Theft Auto that I didn't even know was him. It's a song featuring Agallah, and it's called Rising to the Top. Have you played Grand Theft Auto before? 

BVB: Yeah, I have. 

Masta Ace: If you get into a car, the radio is on and you can toggle through the stations. And one of the stations was a hip-hop station. So, I would always put it on the hip-hop station. And it was like a loop of maybe like five or six songs. And so, while I'm driving around, I'm waiting for that song to come on because I loved that song and when that song would come on, I'd be so happy. And just hearing that song over and over again, while I'm driving around playing Grand Theft Auto, I didn't find out till months later that was actually him rapping cause everything about it was different than what Heltah Skeltah sounded like. So, there's no way for me to know that that was the same person. Somebody said, oh yeah, that's a that's Ruck from [Heltah Skeltah]. I'm like what?! They're like, yeah, that's him and Agallah. I was like, you gotta be kidding. I said, I love that joint. That's how I rediscovered him. 

BVB: I don't think I ever knew that. 

Masta Ace: He reinvented himself. All you gotta do is go to YouTube and Sean Price, Rising To The Top, featuring Agallah. 

BVB: I'm gonna look it up after this. 

Masta Ace: The beat is dope. You know, Agallah does the hook and Sean P just goes in. I think it's like two verses. 

BVB: Since the season is back on, I wanted to get your thoughts about the NFL. I know football has been a major part of your life and you're a huge Eagles fan, but you stopped watching it a few years ago after Kap was blackballed for speaking out. I'm curious about what your thoughts were when Jay- Z formed a partnership with the league through Roc Nation. Do you think something like this is going to create real change? 

Masta Ace: I didn't have any real positive feelings about the collaboration with Jay and Roc Nation and the NFL because I felt that it was purely done to sort of quiet the rumblings that were going on. I didn't feel like it was coming from a real true place. And so that merger or that partnership did it didn't take me off my spot at all. This would have been the fourth season in a row that I didn't watch the NFL. But [that changed] when the George Floyd murder happened and sort of the sentiment around the country started to change, and the NFL realized that they were late on this whole thing and that they needed to be more vocal. And then they started allowing players and even encouraging players to not [stand for the anthem], which in essence was them admitting that they were wrong. Now obviously the final step would have been to let Kap back into the league or give him an opportunity with a team. But I know that that comes down to the individual owners and they're all billionaires who are Trump supporters and Trump donors. So, I kind of knew that they were gonna collude and not allow him back in. But I was just more disappointed that this league that I watched for really my whole life just felt that way and looked at these killings of unarmed Black and Brown people as just an unfortunate circumstance, but nothing that would me to be really talked about. I felt betrayed a little bit, so that's why I stayed away for three years. Three years in a row, I stayed away. 

And this is the first year that I've actually started to watch games again. And the coronavirus definitely played a part in it. And so, I've, I've started to watch some games again. I definitely can't say that I'm fully back on board because three years removed, it's not in your soul the way it was when I was an avid watcher. So, I'm not running to the TV on a Sunday, turning the game on. Like, I'm not. Sometimes I'll be sitting there on a Sunday and not even realize games are on and go, oh shot, there's' a game on. So, I'm actually kind of glad. It was almost like a cleanse for me. A three-year cleanse. I got it out of my system. So, now it's not embedded in me. It's not like every Monday night, every Thursday night, I'm missing the game. I've got to see it from the opening kickoff. I don't have that. That's gone. And I don't know if it's ever going to come back to be honest with you. 

BVB: It sounds like because of what happened, you're sort of disenchanted. It's just not the same game because of how they handled that situation. And for me, it's too little too late. I understand they apologized, but all these half-ass efforts now? I can't get behind it. It's hard to trust people's intentions when there's money involved. 

Masta Ace: Yeah, you're right. 

BVB: The reason I asked you about Jay-Z is because I was curious how you felt about him doing it, specifically because he's such a hip-hop mogul. It just always puzzles me that we, meaning Black people, would form these partnerships when we don't have to. Jay-Z is a billionaire. He doesn't need the NFL to initiate any sort of social justice efforts.  

Masta Ace: Yeah, they basically paid him to, you know, "Talk to your people." That's basically what it came down to. I'll use this analogy: Somebody snatched the NFL’s chain and they didn't have the clout to go get their chain back. So, they called Jay and they were like, yo, can you go see if you can get our chain back? "I got you. I'll take care of it for you." And that's what that was to me. That's why I was [unwavering]. That move didn't do anything to change me at all. 

BVB: Same here. It's unfortunate. At some point, I hope they really do change the league drastically. That's what's needed. But I don't know. I wasn't really a big football fan to begin with, but I think any institution that doesn't recognize the humanity of their players...the league is like, what, 75% Black? It's just insane to me. But that's the kind of world we live in.

Masta Ace: Exactly.

BVB: So, on a different and more positive note, what music projects do you have coming up? 

Masta Ace: Marco and I are doing a new project, a new album. He's been doing a great job of feeding me some really good music to write to. He's basically just waiting for me to get that inspiration to start writing the album. And that's what I do. That's my process. I wait to be inspired to write the album. I don't just go in and start writing because the album has to be done. I just don't feel like that's the way to do it. Something has to make me go, I want to write about this or this is where I want to go with this album. I just haven't figured that part out yet. It's coming though. It's going to come when it comes, you know? 

BVB: Yeah. Trust the process.